Carry on Welsh for Adult Tutoring 1996 to 2018 - Scopie.uk   

Read about Ioan Taflryn de-Suggestopedia pantomime Welsh language learning methods that have no validity.

Ioan Talfryn decided that adults could subconsciously absorb the Welsh language, if he gave them a Welsh Children's pantomime.  He dressed as 'The Bear' and his co-presenter 'Goldilocks'.
        It is unclear whether they were able to find a 'push chair' for Derek Brockway, the B.B.C. Wales forecaster to use.
 

     
  One of the celebrities, who was christened 'Rabbit' refused to wear his mask.  Ioan Taflyn's white board illustrations appear very strange.

The claim that whilst on most courses learners are introduced to 12 words in their first lesson, while Talfryn introduces 1,200 which he claims is stored in the subconscious and eventually come out is more than ridiculous. He admits this in his research (See end).  He has only been practicing this method since 1996!
  Talfryn's suggestion that learners should  cram information is a crime against humanity.
  
 Taflyn claims to be a trained Lazonov tutors, but the qualification is not a legally accredited one.
 

      There is a contractual requirement for all Welsh for Adult tutors in the Welsh Government Welsh for Adult E.S.T.Y.N. inspected service to use proven methods. The 1970s deSuggestopedia is not a proven second language method. It is a D.I.Y. one.

       Mr Ioan Talfryn has repeatedly refused to defend his methods with reliable supporting evidence. Solicitors have threatened to sue scopie.uk over this presentation.

     Although Popeth yn Cyrmaeg is in partnership with Coleg Cambria, Popeth yn Cynraeg is a Registered Charity it is their Board who are responsible for Mr. Ioan Talfryn's practice and conduct. 

Ioan Talfryn promised his 1970s deSuggestopedia method was scientifically proven and that was an improvement on the 'parrot fashion' Wlpan method of learning. It now 2019!

  This one of Ioan Talfryn Kareeoke sessions. The celebrities are singing lists of verbs from a wall. 
           Ioan Talfryn believe that they can learn lots of language in this way if they listen to music and dance. Learners do not instantly learn sets of verbs.

The Wlpan 'parrot method' he claims his work was improvement on was discredited in the late 1950s,
  Reliable researched evidence illustrates that Ioan Talfryn deSuggestopedia has no validity.
L

        Ioan Talfryn does not have Q.T.S. or Q.T.L.S. Teaching Qualifications. He has never been to a school of education. He does not appear to understand that professional teachers are extremely well trained and everything they practice is researched based.

       There is no evidence that IoanTalfryn knows what a library is, nor the fact that education libraries exist. There is a vast literature on cognitive and increasingly neuro-science. If his claimed miracle learning methods work, then surely someone would have found it, such the Cambridge University of the Brain and Professor Alan Baddeley, who discovered working memory with Hitch,  Christine Hinton, Nureo-Scientist Educationalist Harvard and Professor John Sweller, Educational Psychologist in Sydney University.

    There is also Professor Dylan Wiliams, a recognised world authority of education; Professor David Reynolds, an authority of school effective and systems throughout the world; and Micthell et al authorities on second language reseaech, who clearly do not known about Lazanov miracle methods. 
        The problem with ignorance is people do not know what they do not know. "A Little Learning is a Very Dangerous Thing'. 

Ioan Talfyn is  ignorant of the fact that :-

1. Human memory is well researched, Alan Baddeley, for instance, who discovered working   memory with Hitch, has written five books and his theory of learning is accepted across the world(Novel words must pass through working memory into the longer term memory store,  we can only commit around four chunks of information at one time, there are a myriad reasons why 1,200 words cannot be instantly absorb into memory, especially sub-consciously.

2. The task of learning new words in an unfamiliar language is similar to learning arbitrary security codes, facts; (Words are not not baked in the brain as Ioan Talfyn believes in respect of his 'ants in the head' theory', they erode over time after they have been consciously been committed to memory. 50% of facts are forgotten within hour of learning them);  

3. Words are stored in semantic memory, which is a declarative memory, they can only be consciously learnt; (Words cannot be laid linearly like layers of tar, the pantomime layer, the Welsh read and then English read stories, subcionsciously bonded by music as Ioan Talfryn claimed. The source of this appears to be that some books offer say  Italian on one page and the English translation on the other, Ioan has added a pantomime to the sequence. 

4. There is no evidence that three year old children learn language through listening to a pantomime, they are not glorified tape recorders, their learning is structured and they learn through interacting with their parents over extensive periods of time;  (It is impossible for adults to learn like children, especially three year old children. They do not learn their native languages in the way Ioan Taflryn appears to believe. It appears that he believes they learn languages subconsciously, because we all do not retain a memory of our early language learning.) 

5. There are no gaps in spoken language, the phonemes between words become blurred, when we hear people speaking an unfamiliar language we will not be able to identify individual words, especially when it performed at speed; (Novice learners would unlikely to be able to identify a single word from Ioan Taflyn's pantomime, let alone remember one).

6.   The phonology of words and music are committed to working memory through the phonological loop component, trying to learn novel information, whilst actively listening to music will cause cognitive overload, it will retard learning, not enhance it; (Music does not enable learners to absorb large amounts of language as Ioan Talfryn claims, but background music that is not actively listened to will do no harm); 


7. There is no evidence acting and dancing will enhance learners learning, apart from teaching very young children, who are living in there 'here' and 'now', adults are able to learn theorectically; (Lazanov theory is that when learners act they engage procedural memory, this is a declarative memory, which is processed sub-consciously. It applies to skill learning and reproduction. He claims engaging in this improves general learning. There is no research that support his view).


8.  Adults are more intelligent that three year olds, they have much higher working memory capacity, they will have a developed the language processes, they have an understanding of language and a fluent language that they can communicate through; (There is no evidence that anyone in the world of anyone attempting to teach adults like three year old children, young children have very limited working memory capacity and will not be able to instantly absorb 1,200 words).

9.It is uncertain what learning the vocabulary associated with woodland animals has to do with preparing adults to learn. (They tend to live in houses not woods, the brain is very plastic and words that are not used will be lost).

10. It is unclear what was the point of expecting learners to speak Welsh to speak to toy animals is all about. (Learners want to learn Welsh to speak Welsh to other people, negotiating  language with others is critical language learning process)

11. Ioan Talfryn's 'Flip theory' advice that learners should cram information is a crime against humanity.  (Only four chunks of information can be passed through working memory and attempting to learn too much information at once, causes cognitive overload, interference. The claim is the equivalent of doctors advising their patients to smoke).


12. What Ioan Taflryn is doing is blinding people with 'fake science', his complexity theory is so complex that no one understands, and only those with specialist knowledge will understand (All he is doing is window dressing, he does not explain the relevance to language learning of his theories, and he is serruptitously implying that theories support his deSuggestopedia method).

13. Ioan Talfryn claims that learners should be introduced to 1.200 words the first lesson instead of 12 that is used on most course is more than a crime against humanity and it abject deception  (It is not want learners introduce that is important, but what they are capable of learning and will learn. The claim is neurologically impossible).

15. Ioan Talfryn claimed he flipped after doing a intensive Breton language course, where it learn it in 10 days, and then when returned to Wales he met some Breton student and he flipped, he found he could speak it fluently; (He claimed they said Good God! He learnt it quickly! Most people take around 10,000 hours not 10 days to develop native like new language fluency).

16. The concern about his 'flip theory' is he is claiming that if learners learner sufficient long with him, they will suddenly achieve fluency(This is putting a carrot in front of donkey, if learners do not experience progress they are given a promise they will succeed one day).


16. Ioan Talfryn's claims his methods appear counterintuitive. (It is counterintiutitive, if his methods worked someone would have found it, he decietful trying to smother those who believe his methods are counter inituitive)


17. It crime against humanity that Welsh for adult tutors are not registered to prohibit such appalling conduct. (All other community services have such protection, there appears to be one law for Welsh speakers and another for everyone else in Wales) .

18. The notion that an adult tutor, who has never attend a university school of education, where he would have his teaching competence and his understanding of pedagogy assessed will invented or discover a miracle method new language learning is silly. (Ioan Talfryn is not qualified to be able to evaluate Lazanov's method and he is clearly lamentably ignorant of research methodology)

Plenary (Updated 1/6/19)

       Ioan Tafryn's claimed his 1970s deSuggestopedia method was superior the Skinnerist 1947 behaviourist 'parrot fashion method of language learning.  There is no evidence it has ever been recognised language learning method. Coleman and Klapper (2006) referred to deSuggestopedia as learners learning in armchairs. Mitchell et al. (2019) refer to history of second language learning their researched "Second Language Learning Theories", but there is no reference to deSuggestopedia. Therefore it is not a recognised proven second language teaching method.

  Ioan Talfyn's methods were so unique that no one else has practiced them. There is no evidence that much of his practice was a feature of deSuggestopedia.  He uses Krashen (1985) discredited theory that input is only necessary for learning language. His concept referred to the subconsciou learning of grammar. The element of the theory was discredited by Smidt(1985).

      Ioan Talfryn is clearly ignorant that second languages have been thoroughly researched including the cognition of language and other learning. We are now living is the age of the neuro-scientist.  There is no evidence that he has any quality training or his competence assessed.

 Ioan Talfryn does not appear understand that education is a language similar to law. Trained teachers and educationalist have 'common ground' understanding of the learning process. What is referred to as 'corporate intelligence' is the understanding that is shared in professions, such as, a teaching and law. It is not the copyright of one individual. Professional teachers do not base their practice on 'eccentric' clinical psychologists theories.

      There is no evidence of deSuggestopedia being provided by any respected course provider,  especially Ioan Taflryn's bizarre version of it.
None of his claims habe validity. He appears to be under the delusion that if learners memorise  a children's pantomime that they will be able to generally apply the language content in general language making.
   

If Lazanov stupid 'cramming' methods had validity, then there would be ample evidence in the literature to support it. 


Misleading the Welsh public and learners cannot justified. Ioan Taflryn's method was supported by Bangor University and Cardiff University who approved it in their Welsh Governerment  funded 2012 research.

   Mr Ioan Talfryn, who is offering a Welsh for Adult Welsh Government  service where there have been a requirement to teach from 2006, has been applying alternative teaching approaches. He should have been teaching since that time. There is requirement for Welsh for Adult tutors to use proven methods.

 

See the Review of  Mr. Ioan Taflryn's Research

Read Estyn Freedom of Information Disclosure - Welsh for Adult Tutors Must Use Proven Methods.


Reserched Evidence that Adults do Not Learn Like Children

Professor John Sweller Educational Psychologist

 Chait - Hallet and Phillips - How Young Children Learn Languages

de Kaser Language Cognitivist - Only Very Young Chlldren Need Actions


Language from Birth to 3 years - Harvard


Reserched Evidence Evidence that Words cannot be Learnt Istaly or Subconsciously

Semantic (Memory) - Wikepedia


Declarative Memory - Words are Consciously Learnt.

Reserched Evidence Evidence  on How Words (Facts are Learned)

Petty - How we memorise facts 

How the Open University Advise Learners How to Develop  a Vocabulary


Researched vidence the Mozart Effect Music Does Not Enhances learning 

Psychology Today

Research Evidence about D.I.Y. Tutoring Methods

Professor Dai Reynolds and Mujis - Welsh Tutor - Hunter and Turner


Basic Principles of Language Learning

Developing Effective Second Language and Learning Strategies. H.Gunn (2010)

Developing a New Perspective on Language Teaching (2016)

Political Dreams: Practical Realities Welsh Language Learning (2018)


Evidence There are No Miracle Methods of Learning any New Language

Pigeon Welsh Confronts Mutations (I do not want to learn pigeon Welsh).


How Long it Takes to Learn a Language - Sarah Eaton


Honest Welsh Language Tutors Explaining the Difficulty of Learning Welsh.

OTHER 

Coleman and Klapper - Research Book Academics should Learn from School Teachers How to Learn Languages (t.b.i.)

Freedom of Information Act -Chief Inspector E.S.T.Y.N. Welsh for Adult Tutors Must use Proven Methods (t.b.i).

Colin Meara in Coleman and Klapper that native language only Acquire a 1,000 words a Year (t.b.i.)

Research that Krashen 1985  method was Discredited in 1985 (t.b.i).

Dr Kirsch Educationalist - Krashen's Methods severely criticised (t.b.i)

Dr Kirsch - Processes in Learning Languages pg. 102 (t.b.i)

Professor Klaper Why Grammar Should be Taught (t.b.i)

Cockcroft 1982 - Researched Invalidity of rote Teaching  Methods.


Evidence that Ioan Talfryn is no even Practising DeSuggestopedia

This a claim that deSuggestopedia is a Pseudo-science, not Compatible with Scientific Method


Example of Good Welsh for Adult Practice - Coursebook

Ioan said: "Desuggestopedia is an unusual but pioneering method of language teaching. It comes from Bulgaria originally and it completely undermines the unfortunate tendency people have to underestimate their ability to learn anything new.   Mr. Ioan Taflryn Cariad@iaeth presentation may be extreme, but it represents his thinking. He refers to his lessons as concerts. The cannot be any learning value in adults having toys in their classrooms.

 Derek Brockway innocently preached Ioan Talfryn marketing sounbite in the Barry Post that:

"Ioan said: "Desuggestopedia is an unusual but pioneering method of language teaching. It comes from Bulgaria originally and it completely undermines the unfortunate tendency people have to underestimate their ability to learn anything new. "

"In your average language lesson, people learn around a dozen new words and repeat them like parrots. Desuggestopedia immerses the learners in about a thousand words from the first lesson and makes extensive use of stories, games and songs in every lesson. After a while, the vocabulary that has found its way into the subconscious comes out and people are able to express themselves naturally."

       "The Welsh Government is sponsoring this year’s series."

          What Ioan Talfryn is doing is actually claiming that whilst most teacher introduce learners 12 words, £12, he is giving them 1,200 words,  £1,200. They will not be able to see him giving them the money, but they will eventually get all if it. 

      What claims is absolute trash. Novice learners will be lucky to learn 12 words. They are unlikely to remember one word from Ioan Taflryn' s pantomime. The claim is being used to increase his status and to learn using his methods. The alternative methods applied in centre appears as equally bad.

         Rather interestingly Ioan Talfryn was claiming he could only speak or read English, which may account for why he does not know what is in the literature.  Neurcal means related to the nervous system. It is unclear of hw uch research he has done o

Michael Eynsenk is leading cognitive psychologist who claims he had learnt French for 10 years, he has had numerous holidays in France, he can read and write French, but he cannot speak it to natives. It takes around 10,000 hours to learn a new language.  Ioan Talfryn is claimimg he learn fluent Breton in 10 days.

Professor Sarah Eaton - 10,000 hours to Learn a New Language (Paper)

Research Paper Illustrating the Invalidity of Taflyn's methods

Researched Paper why Wlpan Type Methods Do not Wor           

Talfryn' s Research

   The definition of professional expertise that those who possess it are able to apply professional opinions in minutes that it would take novice years of training and practical experience before they will able to offer one, which is assuming that they have the skill and intelligence to develop it. 

 Howard in common with Chief Inspector of Schools in Wales and England possesses consultancy level qualifications. Ph.D. are only needed to be awarded to academics to enable them to award lower degrees. Not all degrees are intellectually challenging. In common with law, pharmacy and nursing, highly qualified practitioners are needed at grass roots level.
IoI
 Talfryn - Ants in My Head - Complexity Theory and Language Ac
qusition Paper


(A)nts do their learning at the colony level. The ·colony brain is the sum thousands and thousands of simple decisions executed by individual ants. The individual ants don’t have anything like a personality, but the colonies do.

'Replace ants neurons and pheromones with neurotransmitters, and you might just as well be talking about the human brain"

H.G. There is reference to this theory in the literature that relates the complexity of how language is developed, but it is nothing to do with physical learning process. It is not used to refer to neurons. Learning takes place when synapses are grown between neuron in the brain

The voluminous nature of Suggestopedia was specifically underlined for by Dr. Lozanov himself in two comments he made at the end of a training event which I attended in Bulgaria two years ago. The first comment which stuck in my memory was this : 

Suggestopedia is not just a 'happy' method. If you do not introduce a very large amount of material on your courses you will be strengthening  the dellimiting  Social-Suggestive Norms. Always teach on the level of the Reserve Capacities of Mind. 


and

If your students are having difficulty in absorbing the material, give them more.


From a traditional perspective that would sound like a very ill advised strategy indeed. But, as we have learnt from Complexity theory - More is different.


H.G. Words are too inadequate to describe what a crime against humanity this claim is. This is the educational equivalent to doctors advising their patients to smoke. (See hgunn.uk Working Memory)
and Professor John Sweller work.

Ioan Talfryn has also claimed he learnt Breton in 10 days to a fluend level after he 'flipped' in Cardiff,

H.G. Ioan Talfryn tells the story, which is presented at the end of this page, of how he took an intense advanced ten day  course in Breton when he visited there, despite him being a beginner.  

     He then claims that after he had been drowned in the Breton for those ten days he could not speak it very much, but ten days he accidentally met his Breton tutors and students in the National Eistedfodd and he flipped. The ants in his head settled down and he was speaking fluent Breton.

H.G. Professor Sarah Eaton in Calgarry University School of Education, when on a residency course to Spain to learn Spanish. She claims it takes 10,000 hours to develop fluency in  a new language. Talfryn's claims are delusional.

 People do not develop fluency in a new languages in ten days. There is no evidence that Mr. Ioan Talfryn speaks the six languages he claims.

        -------------------------------
From a purely objective standpoint, of course, the most obvious aspect of  Suggestopedia, the aspect which truly distinguishes  it from offer methods is  the sheer enormity of the input introduced in a Suggestopedia that input were not ridiculously large and complex compared with traditional methods,  then it wouldn't be  quite frankly be deSuggestopedia.

To give you an idea of what I mean by ridicolously large and complex· compare lexical input size and complexity on traditional, ·normal', community education language courses in the UK with Suggestopedia.
ited to usually no more than some 30 new words in the first lesson and or two grammatical structures. 
 This level of input would tend to be repeated every lesson for a Year at least. 

On suggestopedia  however, You would be introduced to some 800 (or more) new words in the first lesson and practically all of the s
alient grammar of the target language.

H.G. The use of word 'ridicolous' sums of this abjectly ridicolous claim. Ridicolous is defined  as " deserving or inviting derision, mockery and absurd" 

Read His Ants in the Head  Research

H.G. Talfryn's woffle appears to be applied to impress readers and justify his unqualified prejudice and D.I.Y. methods

According to Complexity Theory complex systems are very different from simple systems in that they are continually changing, self-organizing and adapting in response to information from the environment and from within  the system itself. All the elements in a complex system are interconnected and the development of a particular system is heavily influenced by the initial conditions at its inception. Due to the enormous amount of variables effecting complex systems it is nigh on impossible to precisely predict the short term behaviour (unlike simple, non-dynamic systems)


The answer to complexity tums out to be fairly obvious and not, in itself, especially interesting. If you have a lot of simple interactors, and let them interact, then the result can be rather complex.
 
H.G. Talfryn 'answer' to theory is what he claims, simple systems grow into complex system, everything he claim contradicts this principle. What Ioan Taflryn is doing is blinding people with complex science, which is virtually impossible to understand.

As a teacher over the last two and a half decades I have seen some learners suddenly flip before my very eyes - but none as dramatically or as decisively , _--but none as dramatics those students who have been on my Suggestopedic Welsh courses. 

According to Krashen optimal input should be comprehensible, interesting I relevant. not grammatically sequenced and provided in sufficient quantity.

H.G. This the key to all Ioan Taflryn arguments. There have been a tradition in the Schools of Welsh to cite Krashen's 1985 theory, which was discredited by Smidtt in 1985. It only applied in the Welsh for Adult service. Everyone else has read the literature!!!!!

Since the aim of my talk is to link Suggestopedia with Complexity Theory particular with the concept of critical mass as a catalyst for linguistic phase transitions) it is interesting to note that in his summing up of the strengths and weaknesses of a range of teaching methodologies and  very close to completely matching the requirements for optimal input" 


Ioan Talfryn Learning Breton (Full Account)

"Back in the summer of 1978  I enrolled by post on a 10 day residential Breton course for beginners (as I thought at the time).

When I got to the semi-derelict farm house where I would be spending the next 10 days  I realised that I had booked myself onto the wrong course.

This course was for learners who had already achieved a high level of fluency and I was, to all intents and purposes, a total beginner.

The course leader was actually in favour of not letting me attend the course but thankfully, he was persuaded by the other tutors to allow me to stay.

For the next ten days I was saturated With Breton input.

I Iived, breathed,  ate,  breathed ate, slept and dreamt Breton.

Breton was hitting me from all directions and bits of Breton kept on popping uninvited into my head and scurrying through my consciousness like unruly ants.

 Yet, despite all the massive input I was receiving and all the entomological activity to trying to speak I could hardly manage more than a few very few basic, stumbling utterances.

After the course ended I returned to Wales absolutely exhausted, (initially having great difficulty in reverting to English after we had docked in Plymouth. I stayed home for a week, not really-doing much and then, the week following, I went to the National Eisteddfod in Cardiff.


I had been there a couple of days when one evening, outside a night club in Cardiff, who should l happen to meet but some of the students and teachers who had been on the Breton course with  me me a fortnight 

We greeted each other warmly and much to my (and their) surprise I suddenly flipped. When I say l flipped what 1 mean is that I suddenly, Without warning, started to articulate myself quite fluidly in Breton. The language was gushing out of me with practically no  conscious effort on my part.

And I remember one of the teachers turning to one of her colleagues and saying in amazement 'Ma Doue! Desket ·neus  Good God! He's learnt quickly.

If l were totally honest I'd have to admit that I, personally, didn't feel that had  really done anything at al!. I hadn't looked at any Breton books or thought about the language very much for over a week. 

Yet in that time, out cf conscious sight, all those disorganised, scurrying little linguistic ants in my head had surreptitiously and suddenly ordered themselves efficient. .. themselves into an efficient, working collective

Without my knowing it a Breton ant colony had taken residence in my head.  Apparently this Possible.

Amanda Spielman, new head of Ofstead contended

 Education is the great force of human advancement, of advancement of civilisation."

and that

“It a lovely combination of the human and the intellectual- it’s big, it’s
c
omplicated, but above all it has such a profound influence upon people’s lives!"

This Lazanov interview is all woffle  

Wikepedia suggests that:-

"Suggestopedia has been called a "pseudo-science". It depends, in a sense, on the trust that students develop towards the method. Lozanov never admitted that Suggestopedia can be compared to a placebo. He argues, however, that placebos are indeed effective. "

  A pseudo-science is "A collection of beliefs or practices mistakenly regarded as being based on scientific method." Absolute truths are those who are accepted by a range of authorities in their field. Lazanov is an eccentric 'lone ranger'. Ioan Talfryn is not qualified to evaluate his work. 

Lazanov Ytube Interview

The evidence is that the eccentric Lazanov has made his theories up. The video was made 5 years ago. What he asserts is not consistant with the cognitive literature. Ioan Talfryn is practising his claimed methods, but he has responsibility to provide a learning service. He chose not to accept the invalidity of his methods when he was challenged.